As of 2020, as per the International Institute for … Dassault Mirage 50 / Pantera. On the morning of June 5, 1967, the Heyl Ha` Avir (Israeli Air Force) performed pre-emptive strikes on the Syrian, Egyptian and Jordanian air forces, destroying aircrafts on the ground with cannon fire and breaking up runways with French "runway dibber" bombs. OT: btw, would be fair to give the British Tree an Indian Mig-21, Su-7 or Mystere just because this nation is part of the Commonwealth? before the Canadian ADATS and South African line were added, I'm not sure if they hold muxh relevance anymore. 360://https://wiki.warthunder.com/images/5/51/Cockpit_ka_50.jpg. Yes I know the Germans have one too, but it wouldn't really make sense to give them the Cheetah. Even tho the quote is of the other guy. From 1940’s onwards, the United States began to send training missions periodically into Chile, and when the USA entered Second World War in 1941, air missions were established in Chile with the task of reorganising the FACh in accordance with American tactics. Mil. However, budget cuts due to the Great Depression caused shortages of materials, and personnel were heavily demoralized due to reduced payments. Production of the Nesher was accomplished in no small part thanks to a large supply of … During the 1930’s, the influx of British airplanes continued, supplemented by aircraft purchases from Germany and Italy. In … If you apply the dev's reasoning for the SA tanks to the SA aircrafts, the Mirage III, Mirage F1 and Cheetah go to the French tree, while the Grippen goes to the Swedish tree. report. The CAP received a batch of about 60 American aircraft under the Lend-Lease agreement with the United States. F-4 (USA) 55. Until they add aircraft that have no reason to be in their tree...like Lancasters, Spitfires, Migs or any other non-french aircraft that were used by French Colonies. F-5e (USA) 62. It's fine to not agree with the other side of the argument and maintain your position. The XP-50 is a premium rank III American twin-engine fighter with a battle rating of 4.0 (AB/SB) and 3.7 (RB). Fighter Jet Pictures 3K. (except the Class 3P, but that was a German-designed vehicle that was only trialled by SA, never opearted). One of 26 P47D that served During this small-scale conflict, Peru attempted to reclaim Amazonian territory from Columbia by invading a garrison in Leticia. Best database website for Ring of Heroes: https://chompy.app/ Clearing 50th Floor of the Mirage Tower. Followers 12. Don't ignore our arguments please. And this is a great opportunity to give it this and give players more reasons to play this nation. Capt_JamesTKirk, March 12 in Other Nations. With the same excuse you could argue that Germany could receive an Argentine Mirage, or the Cheetah to play with the 3P. Me and other users in this thread went through our arguments, discussed them, countered them, and informed ourselves. War Thunder Wiki - Recent changes [en] Added AirManufacturer Bloch template, awaiting approval of my latest revision to the template as well. In 1952, the French government issued its specification, calling for a lightweight, all-weather interceptor.Amongst the respondents … This fighter was introduced in Update 1.31. In Peru, military aviation started in January 1919 with the founding of the Servicio de Aviación Militar del Ejército del Peru, followed by the establishing of the first Peruvian flight school equipped mainly with French aircraft. This news was published on the old version of the website. Max Thunder 4. Let me know which one is your favorite and if I missed any! The development of the Chilean Air Force (Fuerza Aérea de Chile, abbreviated FACh) first started in 1910, when the Military Aviation Service (Servicio de Aviación Militar de Chile) was founded by Lieutenant Colonel Pedro Pablo Dartnell. On 24/03/2021 at 16:39, MessInMines said: On 24/03/2021 at 18:29, _ArchangelAzrael said: Atlas Cheetah Variant "C" (South African upgrade to French Mirage III). It has some very unique vehicles, but it combines aircrafts from Germany, Britain, the US and France all at once, so it's impossible to place them all in the same tree as a single line without upsetting everyone else. Fans Aviones Maisto Chile. My arguments : Cheetah is 50% French, 0% British. Machinery of War Discussion ; Aircraft Discussion ; France ; General & Upcoming ; Dassault Mirage III Sign in to follow this . The second prototype called Mirage III R n°344 called Milan 01 was fitted with retractable whiskers. Mil. The helicopter fleet consists mainly of Russian helicopters, such as the Mi-25/35 and Mi-17. However, due to rivalries between army and air service officials, an independent air unit was founded on 15th July 1920. Link to post Share on other sites. It's test flights began in May 1969. You are mistaken as to why the South-African tanks are in the British tree in the first place. This doesn't mean that all other South African vehicles going forward will go to the UK tree. The attacker force consists of Su-25’s, and upgraded A-37 Dragonflies, while transport squadrons are equipped mostly with Antonov An-32 and de Havilland DHC-6 Twin Otter transport aircraft. You can't just use the fact that SA tanks are in the UK tree as a backdoor to shove everything from SA into the UK tree. Eventually during the 1980’s, Dassault Mirage 50 jet fighters were purchased from France, along with locally built ENAER T-35 Pillán trainers. Don't ignore our arguments please. © 2021 by Gaijin Games Kft. In short : I am ignoring your arguments, because they're irrelevant to mine. Member of the French AMX-50 tanks family, it is very similar to the AMX-50 Surbaissé. - Smin1080p says the GB tree =/= commonwealth, vehicles go to nation with most ties to the vehicle There are no "subtrees". But still, France has over 20 domestic Mirage variants, they don't really need the Cheetah (and the UK doesn't really need it either, but Gaijin's precedent points there IMHO). - GB players want the cheetah in their tree because commonwealth After giving it a bit more thought, I'm gonna have to advocate adding it to the British tree to allow for running it in a lineup with South African ground vehicles in combined arms. With your reasoning the UK should also get the Mirage III, Mirage F1 and Grippen because SA used them. Even I agree that it would be nice for SA fans to be able to use the cheetah as fire support for SA tanks, but to me, it loses against the other arguments.. Syrian MIG-21 Shoot down Israeli Mirage III during the October War 1973. The SA tank line in the British tree isn't a "subtree" and South Africa isn't a "subnation". Since War Thunder is opting to go more and more into the future, I figured it would be interesting to start compiling a list of every post-war jet France used or tried to make. Śubsequently, the naval air force was formed in 1920, and during 1920‘s, the French air mission that had been present during previous years was replaced by the British, from which Peruvians aquired fighters and bombers. F-8 (USA) 6. Post-WW2 SA didn't rely on British aviation nearly as much as they did for tanks. Dassault later offered an improved version, the Mirage 50, with a new engine and greater fuel and payload capacities. Compared to it, it is lower, has a more protected turret armour and has a 20mm MG 151 canon at the top, which is very efficient against aircraft and lightly armoured targets. It's not because they are commonwealth, it's because the nation in-game that had the most ties to their tanks is the UK. ← Older revision If anything, the incorporation of the ADATS and the Eland points to the opposite direction, that cultural/political ties are as valid as technological ties. He had undergone pilot training in France, and had returned to his homeland with the much needed ‘know-how’ that would lead to aviational development. For the weapon systems the same ones as in the Jaguar and Mirage 3E were used as well as some new ones. save. In 1932, an incident known as the “Leticia Incident” occured. The same reasoning should apply to everything, tanks, aircrafts, everything. Would they have been put in the British tree ? hide. With this inventory, the CAP provided air support to Peruvian ground forces until the ceasefire in October 1941 was signed. The Mirage 50 is an outgrowth of the Mirage 5 series fighters. Personally don't have an issues with the former french empire nation's contributing to the french tree it has to work both ways imo. The tank was introduced in Update 1.89 "Imperial Navy" and has the distinction of being the first gift vehicle of the French tech trees. You do know the UK was the biggest use of the CL saber outside canada right? With your reasoning the UK should also get the Mirage III, Mirage F1 and Grippen because SA used them. https://warthunder.com/en/news/7052-development-olifant-mk1a-the-beast-of-desert-en, "In War Thunder, the Olifant Mk1A will be a new main battle tank arriving at the top ranks of the British ground forces tree as part of the brand new South African The situation in the air is completely different. You reach your conclusion based on a single argument while ignoring all other arguments. You are mistaken as to why the South-African tanks are in the British tree in the first place. ... and upgraded Mirage 50. I am ignoring your arguments, because they're irrelevant to mine. Operation Brimstone 08 15. Sergeant; Member; 44 102 posts; 3551 Report post; Posted January 6. Shortly after this, army and naval air services were separated from each other, and reorganisation took place. The first major production model, the Mirage IIIC, first flew in October 1960. The British had very little if any involvment with the development of modern SA aviation. ", 3. And in August 2020, SA subtree was in development, so what the devs said definitely stands. Don't ignore our arguments please. SA cannot exist as a standelone tree, therefore the devs have to make some tradeoffs to allow the SA vehicles to be implemented. Thats the actual facts as they are from the developers.". The first Mirage 5 flew on 19 May 1967. subtree 2. More jet aircraft were purchased during the 1960’s (for example, Dassault Mirage 5 fighters and additional Canberras), and from 1974 onwards, Peru began to aquire Soviet aircraft, notably, Mil Mi-6 and Mi-8 helicopters, Sukhoi Su-22 fighters, and Antonov An-26 transport aircraft. Usados Summit Motors. It's not because they are commonwealth, it's because the nation in-game that had the most ties to their tanks is the UK. Your conclusion : Cheetah should go into British tree. You are welcome to join me / iNAVY on Discord , please use this link https://discord.gg/zKzkqYH2bQ So we arent even talking about what Smin wants, BUT WHAT THE DEVS HAVE DECIDED. Club Aéreo Adolfo Menadier. In 1923, an independent naval air force was also created, named the Aviación Naval de la Armada de Chile, and during these years, new airbases were built – in 1924, four airbases had come into existance. Close. You can't just use the fact that SA tanks are in the UK tree as a backdoor to shove everything from SA into the UK tree. F-14 (USA) 246. History. One of those recruits, Captain Manuel Ávalos Prado, eventually took command of the newly founded aviation school, named Escuela de Aeronáutica Militar et Lo Espejo in the vicinity of Santiago de Chile, Chile’s capital. "When I say we dont have a Commonwealth tree, thats not my opinion. British TT is not commonwealth TT. Eventually during the 1980’s, Dassault Mirage 50 jet fighters were purchased from France, along with locally built ENAER T-35 Pillán trainers. Your arguments : It would be nice to have Cheetah as fire support for SA tanks. Interest. in Chilean Air Forces. [citation needed… Smin1080p relays what the devs want, not his own opinion. The same reasoning should apply to everything, tanks, aircrafts, everything. During the conflict, the CAP received more planes from Britain, France and the U.S. As a result, when the ceasefire was signed in 1934, the CAP emerged stronger than ever. hmm, idk why it says your name on it. Link to post … F-16 Pictures (USA) 363. You can't just use the fact that SA tanks are in the UK tree as a backdoor to shove everything from SA into the UK tree. Recreation & Sports Website. Republic P-47D-25 Thunderbolt Designation FACH 750 from No. Almost all SA tanks were either British-made, modifications of British tanks, or developped in collaboration with British engineers. 100% Upvoted. My reasoning is solely based around combined arms battles and being able to create lineups of a shared nationality (in his case flying a South African jet in support of South African ground vehicles). Training 15. Keen Sword 2011 50. "Vehicles for nations that don't have a tree are deployed into whatever tree is most applicable or relevant on a case by case basis. Vote. 11 Group Fighter Bomber. Depiction of any real-world weapon or vehicle in this game does not mean participation in game development, sponsorship or endorsement by any weapon or vehicle manufacturer. US-Japan 15. It makes sense for SA tanks to be in the British tree, but it doesn't make sense for the SA aviation. There are no "subtrees". There isn't even enouth indigenous South African aircrafts to make a line in the first place. World War II 807. Red Flag 2013 132. This will make TT less unique. Bright Star 2007 0. If you apply the dev's reasoning for the SA tanks to the SA aircrafts, the Mirage III, Mirage F1 and Cheetah go to the French tree, while the Grippen goes to the Swedish tree. Or maybe they're working on a milan/mirage 50/mirage 3NG or even a mirage G8 Edited January 5 by Nicolaser. It is a modified French aircraft. 1. The Mirage 5 grew out of a request to Dassault from the Israeli Air Force.Since the weather over the Middle East is clear and sunny most of the time, the Israelis suggested removing avionics, normally located behind the cockpit, from the standard Mirage IIIE to reduce cost and maintenance, and replacing them with more fuel storage for attack missions. During the 1930’s, Peru purchased a large number of Italian aircraft and also aquired a license to build Caproni aircraft. ... FACH - War Thunder Chile. If you apply the dev's reasoning for the SA tanks to the SA aircrafts, the Mirage III, Mirage F1 and Cheetah go to the French tree, while the Grippen goes to the Swedish tree. History. Eventually, their first combat unit was formed in 1918, which was to be stationed at Base Aérea El Bosque and equipped with Bristol M.1c monoplane fighters and de Havilland DH.9 bombers. Thr Air force was then reformed again, and on the 21th March 1930, Fuerza Aérea de Chile was officially formed as an independent air force. The SA tank line in the British tree isn't a "subtree" and South Africa isn't a "subnation". Today, the primary fighter aircraft of the FACh is the Lockheed Martin F-16 Fighting Falcon, with transport squadrons being equipped with C-130’s, DHC-6 Twin Otters and CASA C-212 aircraft. Depends which french empire we're talking about xD. The AMX-50 Surblindé is a gift rank V French heavy tank with a battle rating of 8.0 (AB/RB/SB). An independent air force, named Cuerpo de Aviación del Perú (CAP), was founded on 20th May 1929 by merging the Army and Navy air divisions. Posted by just now. Subtree is definitively how they're referring to the SA line. Only Chile and Venezuela purchased the Mirage 50. So, they want this in the British tree solely because South Africa is part of the Commonwealth? In 1967 the Israelis used their Mirage IIICJ fighters against his neighbours enemies on the "Six-Day War". More aerial units were created in the following months, and in 1919, both army and naval air units were unified under Dirección de la Fuerza Aérea Nacional. Today, the primary fighter aircraft of the FACh is the Lockheed Martin F-16 Fighting Falcon, with transport squadrons being equipped with C-130’s, DHC-6 Twin Otters and CASA C-212 aircraft. Movie/Television Studio. Although this early organisation had its own flying school, the first batch of Chilean military aviators were nonetheless sent to train in France as well. This means that all of those tanks were going to end-up the British tree anyway, they just put them all in the same line. BTW all of the Rooikat, Cheetah prototypes were designed with German help. The CAP actively participated in this conflict, equipped with aircraft such as Caproni Ca.114, North American NA.50 fighters, Douglas DB-8 attackers and Caproni Ca.135/Ca.310 bombers. Im sorry but giving the Uk a plane that they don't need its just wrong, Mirage modifications/developments belong in the French tree. Powered by Invision Community. The IIIC was a single-seat interceptor, with an Atar 09B turbojet engine, featuring an "eyelet" style variable exhaust. It just has a line in the tree. Shocman Profiles. You can't make your own interpretation of facts to try and turn them in your favor and not expect people not to call you out. Dassault Mirage III. The British air mission was in turn replaced by the American air mission in 1924, bringing American airplanes and starting a long period of U.S. influence over Peru. The IIIC was largely similar to the IIIA, being less than a half meter longer and having a full operational fit. The issue the UK and any one who isn't the US and russia is going to run into is that in the latter days of the cold war and post cold war the diversity of aircraft has pretty much died out so you get everyone using mirages, phantoms or migs and the such. Republic P-47D-25 from Peruvian Air Force Invasion of … Its what the devs have decided, so it does. This was followed shortly by English Electric Canberra jet bombers in 1956. The Pakistan Air Force (PAF) (Urdu: پاک فِضائیہ , romanized: Pāk Fìzāʾiyah; pronounced [pɑːk fɪzɑːɪjəɦ]) is the aerial warfare branch of the Pakistan Armed Forces, tasked primarily with the aerial defence of Pakistan, with a secondary role of providing air support to the Pakistan Army and Navy when required, and a tertiary role of providing strategic airlift capability to Pakistan. F-15 (USA) 359. ... Dassault Mirage 5 Dassault Mirage 50 Dassault … This is not the case of their 1960s+ aviation. From 1996 onwards, FAP started to receive deliveries of MiG-29 fighters and Sukhoi Su-25 attackers, provided by Russia and Belarus.The MiG-29 formed the backbone of the FAP fighter force until recent times, where it has been supplemented by Dassault Mirage 2000 fighters. Also, France has a French-produced (not derived from a French design) alternative to the Cheetah in the form of the Mirage 50: I do not know the exact reasoning behind the placement of the canadian ADATS in the british tree, but I can guarantee you it's the exception and not the rule. A fighter jet isn't a smartphone to replace it with a new one when new models arrive in the market. When diplomatic efforts failed, two Peruvian Vought O2U Corsairs attacked Colombian vessels at the Amazon River – this was the first CAP combat mission ever. I also included a production aircraft poll to know what's most popular when I have more time to skin in the future. ", - Smin1080p says the GB tree =/= commonwealth, vehicles go to nation with most ties to the vehicle, I wasn't arround for the initial discussion, but since Smin said this. Published by Gaijin Network Ltd. under the exclusive license. This drop of morale ultimately resulted in the mutiny of Chilean sailors from August to November 1931 - this incident is seen as the FACh’s baptism by fire, as several bombing sorties were made against rebel ships in order to suppress the mutineers. Welcome back to war thunder, we'll be checking out the April fools UCAV and Toon vehicles!! My arguments are relevant to your conclusion. Publisher. In 1991, the Pakistani Air Force purchased 50 Mirage IIIO / D aircraft from Australia, of which 45 of the 50 fighters were considered suitable to operate in the PAF; 12 of them were soon retired and became operational. The first bomber squadron was then formed in 1928, equipped with Junkers R.42 bombers and followed by its first amphibious squadron, flying with Dornier Wal flying boats. Bright Star 2009 50. It's not because they are commonwealth, it's because the nation in-game that had the most ties to their tanks is the UK. Published by Gaijin Network Ltd. under the exclusive license. Camouflage created by TeodorSan | Download here ! One that I can think of right now is the Swiss air tree. Also, … You are, after all, entitled to your opinion. also share. You can't make your own interpretation of facts to try and turn them in your favor and not expect people not to call you out. The same reasoning should apply to everything, tanks, aircrafts, everything. The Mexas and 3P you have a valid point on the Ram II you don't as Britain was involved in that all be it to a limited extent and we got the Ram 3.7" anyway. The history of SA tank development is very closely tied to that of the British. Estonia can into Nordic, Finland approves. Subscribe and visit the Legends of Skylands channel for more Skylanders Ring of Heroes videos! USSR For refference, the South African tanks ingame with ties to Britain are the two Olifants (obviously Centurions), the two SARCs (British guns and trialled by the UK), both Rooikat 105s and the TTD (use L7 derivatives, though basically everyone used them). This means that all of those tanks were going to end-up the British tree anyway, they just put them all in the same line. This doesn't mean that all other South African vehicles going forward will go to the UK tree. Share this post. As of now, the British tree is How does it matter that my arguments don't directly contradict yours ? If Gaijin decides to implement a South African aviation subtree, it's most certainly going into the British tech tree along with the Cheetah. Despite the fact that Peru did not directly participate in the Second World War, a short conflict with Ecuador broke out in 1941. I understand that SA fans want to be able to use the cheetah alongside SA tanks, but that's not possible considering the consequences such a logic would have on the game as a whole. Did you even read the debate in the thread before typing this ? I've been looking around and i've come to the conclusion that the Mirages we need are the Mirage 50 ( Mirage 5 with Atar 9K50 engine ) and the Mirage F1 MIII is just too old I think Share this post. Aviation Art & History. Rafales , Mirages , Chinese jet fighters ( ree make china worth playing again ) Social Club. panzerknoef 44 panzerknoef. Do you even understand the reason the SA branch was placed in the British TT in the first place ? " In War Thunder, the Olifant Mk1A will be a new main battle tank arriving at the top ranks of the British ground forces tree as part of the brand new South African subtree" ... Mirage 50 is not an aircraft that is of the caliber of the Cheetah due to the armament it carries No document states Mirage 50 ever used Magic II (although they use the same rail) whilst Cheetah carries Python 3 , A Darter and … With your reasoning the UK should also get the Mirage III, Mirage F1 and Grippen because SA used them. - GB has nothing to do with the Cheetah, therefore it belongs in the French tree We're talking about an aircraft that is literally a modified version of the Mirage, where the versions D,E & R come from Mirage IIIs. Thanks to these supplies, the FACh aquired new aircraft, such as Republic P-47 Thunderbolt fighters, Consolidated PBY Catalina flying boats and North American B-25 Mitchell bombers. If your answer is "because commonwealth" you're dead wrong. My conclusion : Cheetah should go into French tree. Camouflage created by darth_linux_man | Download here ! The FACh possess its own fleet of … A pitot tubewas distinctively moved from the tip of the nose to below the nose in the majority of Mirage 5 variants. No, because you can run it in a lineup with other South African vehicles in combined arms if it's on the British tree. © 2021 by Gaijin Games Kft. Its not a matter of what are we confortable with, its about keeping the trees unique, thats the reason Britain didn't got the Mexas, The RAM II, or the 3P, and the main reason it should not get a Mirage or any Mirage derivatives that were used by South Africa (or any other Commonwealth nation that used them), its not because we dont want, its because that aircraft doesn't belong there. You are mistaken as to why the South-African tanks are in the British tree in the first place. I certainly dont like the idea of the making the Uk a Commonwealth tree, vehicles that have nothing to do with the Uk would end up there and making the tree less unique, a good example is the Eland, its literally a licensed built AML-90, whats next ? Product/Service. Syrian MIG-21 Shoot down Israeli Mirage III during the October War 1973. Descendant of Finnish White Army and Civil Guard's man. Ka-50. You can't make your own interpretation of facts to try and turn them in your favor and not expect people not to call you out. What if SA used modified Abrams tanks ? The same cannot be said about its aviation. They simply have no reason to get such vehicles, thus why the Cheetah should sit in the French tree. Mirage IIIC, IIIE, Canadair Sabre, Mirage F-1? That's it. Three years later, the CAP was then reformed into the Fuerza Aérea del Perú (FAP). all South African vehicles due to be added will be added to that tree, I'm not sure if they hold muxh relevance anymore. The Mirage 5 retained the IIIE'… It looked much like the Mirage III, except it had a long slender nose that extended the aircraft's length by about half a metre. Mirage 50 is not an aircraft that is of the caliber of the Cheetah due to the armament it carries, No document states Mirage 50 ever used Magic II (although they use the same rail) whilst Cheetah carries Python 3 , A Darter and more all aspect missiles, the M.50 is an intermediate between Mirage III/5 and F1 at best with an equivalent engine to the Cheetah , but they're not equivalents , one is clearly better than the other, Those aircraft were straight up developped off of Mirage III parts and frames , therefore they belong more to France than they ever will to UK just because of commonwealth , especially since it was clarified that UK is NOT to be a commonwealth tree. This is not the case of their 1960s+ aviation. If your answer is "because commonwealth" you're dead wrong. Also appears in the 1991 film Terminator 2: ... Cessna T-50. Dassault Mirage IIIC — французский многоцелевой истребитель второго поколения, разработанный компанией Dassault Aviation. The FACh possess its own fleet of helicopters as well, consisting of Bell 412 and UH-1 helicopters. The only exception I know of in the SA line is the Eland 90, which is essentially a licence-built AML-90. In the 1983 film Blue Thunder, a Jet Ranger is portrayed as a LAPD helicopter flying for the Astro division. That leaves 6 vehicles out of 13 without a direct connection to Britain that nevertheless were added (the Ratels, Eland, Rooikat Mk.1D and ZA-35). The Dassault Mirage III (French pronunciation: ) is a family of single/dual-seat, single-engine, fighter aircraft developed and manufactured by French aircraft company Dassault Aviation.It was the first Western European combat aircraft to exceed Mach 2 in horizontal flight. Almost all SA tanks were either British-made, modifications of British tanks, or developped in collaboration with British engineers. In 1955, FAP received its first jet aircraft: the North American F-86F Sabre fighter. Cars. There are many other trees like this. ZA-35 was only a test vehicle and its in the game, it was fully a German vehicle and ended up in German tree as it should. The first combat squadron, named Esquadrón de Aviación No.1, was formed in 1936, and by the time the Second World War started, the CAP consisted of four Air Regions, each possessing several squadrons.